Amazing Applications - build Dynamics 365, Power Apps and Power BI apps that everyone will love

Change Management with Britt Damkjaer

April 27, 2021 Neil Benson Episode 31
Amazing Applications - build Dynamics 365, Power Apps and Power BI apps that everyone will love
Change Management with Britt Damkjaer
Chapters
Amazing Applications - build Dynamics 365, Power Apps and Power BI apps that everyone will love
Change Management with Britt Damkjaer
Apr 27, 2021 Episode 31
Neil Benson

Join me with Britt Damkjaer, a customer excellence and change management coach and the founder of bd relations in Copenhagen, Denmark as we discuss change management and business applications and other insights from her experience as a product owner and coach. I like how Britt is expanding our minds to thinking not just about our users, but also our end customers and the impact that our business applications are going to have on the customer experience, too.

Our discussion covers:

  • The significance of the role of Product Owner in Business Development projects.
  • Why Britt wrote her book, "It's our customer".
  • Change management approach for Agile projects compared to organizations that are taking a waterfall approach to projects.
  • The three biggest lessons that Britt conveys in the book from her 20 years of experience.
  • The biggest mistakes that Britt has seen from a change management perspective.

Resources

Britt Damkjaer on LinkedIn
IT'S OUR CUSTOMER book page on Britt's website with a preview of the book
Register for Achieve Successful CRM webinar
Amazing Applications podcast page on LinkedIn
Amazing Applications podcast page on Podchaser
Scrum for Microsoft Business Apps online course at Customery Academy
Agile Foundations for Microsoft Business Apps free online mini-course at Customery Academy



Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/amazingapps)

Show Notes Transcript

Join me with Britt Damkjaer, a customer excellence and change management coach and the founder of bd relations in Copenhagen, Denmark as we discuss change management and business applications and other insights from her experience as a product owner and coach. I like how Britt is expanding our minds to thinking not just about our users, but also our end customers and the impact that our business applications are going to have on the customer experience, too.

Our discussion covers:

  • The significance of the role of Product Owner in Business Development projects.
  • Why Britt wrote her book, "It's our customer".
  • Change management approach for Agile projects compared to organizations that are taking a waterfall approach to projects.
  • The three biggest lessons that Britt conveys in the book from her 20 years of experience.
  • The biggest mistakes that Britt has seen from a change management perspective.

Resources

Britt Damkjaer on LinkedIn
IT'S OUR CUSTOMER book page on Britt's website with a preview of the book
Register for Achieve Successful CRM webinar
Amazing Applications podcast page on LinkedIn
Amazing Applications podcast page on Podchaser
Scrum for Microsoft Business Apps online course at Customery Academy
Agile Foundations for Microsoft Business Apps free online mini-course at Customery Academy



Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/amazingapps)

Hi, and welcome to the amazing applications podcast for people building Microsoft business applications that everyone will love. G'day, mate, I'm your host, Neil Benson. What am I doing? I'm from Northern Ireland. I don't usually say g'day I've applied for my Australian citizenship and I've got an interview coming up. So I'm trying to practice soundingmore Australian. How am I doing? This is the Amazing Applications podcast. And our goal is to help you slash your budget budgets, reduce your delivery timelines, mitigate technical risks, and build amazing agile Power Platform and Dynamics 365 applications that everyone will love. Welcome to the show. And thanks for listening. If this is your first time listening, a very special welcome to you. And a huge shout out to Siva Phimister in Aberdeen in Scotland. I got a surprise this week. When I got an email from buy me a coffee to let me know that Siva had bought me a coffee. I've only just set up the buy me a coffee donation service as part of the podcast's new website that we'll be launching in a few months. I didn't think I'd told anyone about it it, but somehow Siva you found it and donated the cost of a cup of coffee. And you also said, "great podcasts, informative and relevant as always. Thanks". So thank you so much. I don't know how you found the site, but I really appreciate it. I don't think we've talked about change management before on Amazing Applications. If we have, we haven't discussed it enough. On today's episode, I have a chat with Britt Damkjaer. Britt is a customer excellence and change management coach and the founder of BD relations in Copenhagen, Denmark. Britt has been the product owner for several Dynamics CRM and Dynamics 365 implementations at Oticon and at Jabra, the company that makes those awesome Bluetooth headsets. She's also the author of a new book called, "It's our Customer", and she joins me on the show to discuss change management and business applications and other insights from her experience as a product owner and coach. Show notes for this episode are at customery.com/031. That's the word customer with a Y on the end dot com slash zero three one. There are links to Brit's profiles, her book, and the transcript for this episode. Here is Britt.

Neil:

Britt Damkjaer, welcome to the amazing applications podcast. It's great to have you on the show.

Britt:

Thank you.

Neil:

we'd like to get to know you a little bit better. So I just going to ask you to introduce yourself really quickly. And then I've got three little introductory questions. I like to ask all my guests. Why don't you give us a minute or two, just to tell us about you and your background.

Britt:

My name is Britt I'm from Copenhagen. And I have been working with global Danish companies for about 20 years focusing on CRM Over the past 20 years, I've been working with CRM as a business discipline being very passionate about managing customer relations business development, and enhancing the customer excellence.

Neil:

Britt, so we can get to know you a little bit better. Why don't you tell us, first of all, what you had for breakfast this morning? A nice, easy question to get us started.

Britt:

Thank you. I actually had a yogurt with muesli. I think you will say in English as well. usually we have a lot of fruits, blueberries, apples, pears.

Neil:

I had, I had exactly the same every morning. So it's mutually, it's a milk and yogurt. I make my own muesli at home and my wife does the same for our kids with a lot more fruit. So yeah, it must be the Danish tradition.

Britt:

Yeah. Yeah. Very much so.

Neil:

Tell us about how you got your first job either after school or college. And what was your first job and how did you get that job?

Britt:

Well, the funny thing is actually that I was doing something completely different. I started in the international film industry. So I was first working in a, in a Danish production company by Lars von Trier is probably a name that you know of. but he was a very tiny little production company at the time, but he was of course, a new name in in Cannes, in France for the film industry. So I was helping building up to get international distribution of that film That actually took me to Hollywood working for James Bond film in Yeah. it was something totally different. but all the time I've been working with marketing sales and the connection between the two and working with optimizing business development and looking into how to d istribute products. Basically that took me a lead to coming back to Denmark because I've been living abroad for about seven, eight years. And then from there on, I was actually by chance getting into CRM at the time. there was a global company based out of Copenhagen American of origin, but having the yeah, the core business in, in Copenhagen. And from there, I was actually just working with CRM on various aspects.

Neil:

So you've come from sales and marketing background and been involved in CRM projects. I see some of the roles you've had have been as a product owner on a couple of Microsoft dynamics, CRM, or 365 implementations. Tell us about that experience. What's it like transitioning from, the business rules of being in marketing and sales into, I guess, a slightly more technical role as part of a, software project team.

Britt:

I think that the advantage that I got from my experience was to have. The the business needs and the The requirements that is needed to actually succeed and make sure that you're still focused on the customer. because what I have been facing so many times is that unfortunately, I think too many think that it is an IT fix. Implementing CRM becomes a technical project, and I keep telling people and telling leaders and my peers that it is in fact much more a business discipline. It's a business strategy. It is an effort that requires collaboration across teams, and that is the core to actually succeed with CRM. So the technical part is of course important, but it's just one piece of, of at least four or five, six pieces that has to be joined together to to successfully gain benefits out of those huge investments that a CRM project is. I was actually starting working with Microsoft from the very. Yeah, spearing time when Microsoft was not that implemented everywhere and they were still gaining market share I remember that there was this like minor competition between Salesforce and Microsoft and, and the companies were still very much. Of course they are also today looking into which one should they jump onto. So that has been sort of moving along with their development and seeing how far can you go and optimize the way of, of working with customers, but also optimizing the efficiency and the productivity internally.

Neil:

I was going to ask you about the role of the product owner. I quite often get asked by Microsoft customers. When they're thinking about, you know, how to resource their projects internally, what internal resources will they need? And I talk to them about the product owner role, how critical it is. It's the most important role in the project team. Do you think that's true? You've, you've held that role. I haven't, I I've worked with some amazing product owners, but I've never had that responsibility. Do you think it's the most challenging role in a project team?

Britt:

I do think that it is the, the most important role to focus on when you are doing business development, because you are. Basically you are defining what are the needs and how to succeed and, and gain and realize benefits out of the needs and the demands that you are requesting. But I think that, and that has been some of the roles that I have turned over and onto afterwards is the business responsibility is as important to make sure that you are actually succeeding because what happens most of the time, where it is a more technical project or where the IT department or operations are the ones owning or driving the project, it tends to be again, Far too technical. So we are talking about features and functions and, and how the solution can be built in terms of, of driving that efficiency. But you totally forget the customer. And you totally also forget to ask the business, working with the customer and how can the tool enable them to work better and more seamlessly on different touch points. And that is the core. Basically it is that you have this joint responsibility of the customer and IT is actually. Equally important to have that feeling of owning the customer and having that common customer responsibility. They just have to look at it from the IT perspective. How can they enable the tools and platforms and the various integration across. Whatever our architectural setup, they have to ensure that you are actually serving and generating much better customer experiences

Neil:

I mean, this is something you've felt so passionate about. You've written a book, it's called "It's our customer". It's recently been published. Tell us about why you wrote the book.

Britt:

Back to this situation where having implemented so many various types of programs with CRM, I faced the same issue that it turned out often to be this IT fix. Everyone was looking so much into how should it technically succeed. And I had to, again and again, convince and tell people how important it is to actually look at it from the customer perspective and make sure that we interconnect the elements so that it's of course, we need to drive efficiency and have better productivity internally. But you shouldn't forget the customer. And in order to fulfill that achievement, you have to have everyone in the organization understand the customer journey. You have to have them all feel that sense of common understanding of this is our customer. We are all having a shared responsibility of ensuring that we create better customer experiences. That we create customer value.

Neil:

Whenever I've worked with project teams, their customer are the users of the system. That's the people in marketing or sales or operations or customer service who are going to be using the new shiny CRM system. What you're talking about is the organization's external customers. If it's a university, it would be their students. If it's a hospital, it would be their patients. If it was a government department, it would be the citizens. And you're, you're stressing on project teams. They should look beyond the users and look at the end customers. Is that right?

Britt:

Yeah. And what is so unique and special in the book is that it is exactly the same focus that you should have on your external customer, as you should have on your internal customer. The whole framework of the book is actually built upon this parallel, looking into go-to markets, commercial way of thinking. That is the way that you should succeed with your own project, with your own programs, internally in the organization.

Neil:

So who's the audience for your book Britt? Is it the technical practitioners in the IT department, or is it the business leaders who are maybe sponsoring a CRM initiative? Who do you think would benefit most from, from reading your book?

Britt:

I have made it in such way that you gain benefit depending on which perspective you're coming from. So it means that if we take, for instance, the, the technical departments in the book, there is a change journey so that you can see the overview of the total process. So an IT consultant, a business consultant, but still in the IT department will have benefit of reading the book and knowing the process. He and the organization will be going through. In that perspective, he will be much better in supporting the business in whatever phases they are going through. He will know what stages and the right timing for various efforts where he can go in and, and be better prepared to support them, to ensure that he has Good preparation. Good knowledge about what is the next phases and what are the next steps? in that way, he will have the benefit of being part of that collective mindset to proceed with the transformation in the organization. Now, if you are from marketing and sales, you are also being. Much better prepared and going through that change journey process, and you see, you can sort of have the, the the change model as a common reference. And then the book is built up in a way where you. Can see it from a leadership perspective, you can see it from a communications perspective, hR, marketing, you can see it from a collaborative perspective, which would be the middle management or the, the team leaders. How should they ensure supporting their employees the right way? It was very interesting. The change management consulting firm Prosci American one, they. Do you, of course, a lot of research, but one of those research that I find very interesting is that they are saying and found out from interviews that. The the knowledge of the overall transformation that we like to hear from the CEO. The big change of now something new is coming that is okay to listen to that and get information about that in a town hall or whatever. But when it comes to the impact of how we personally are effected by the new changes, because there's no way that we do change this without it, it will affect us one way or another. It's just a matter of the, the volume or the way it is affecting. And that we like to hear from our direct team leader or the direct manager. So there are different stakeholders that really. Benefits from reading this book because it turns out to be a very strong, common reference.

Neil:

You talk about change management? And I know you've delivered some agile projects in the past. I was wondering if the change management approach that you recommend differs when project teams are taking, or organizations are taking an agile approach versus a more big bang approach where nothing is released for the first 12 months. And then there's, there's a big release to the change management approaches differ between those two styles of projects so that you still have a successful outcome.

Britt:

The past way of doing it has for many companies being, doing the, the waterfall approach. And the more modernized and the faster speed also, the technology has been affecting businesses. There has been a, a wave of looking into the benefit of doing the agile way. The the situation is though that when you do it, the agile way, the employees get a feeling that you have a much higher frequency of change happening. That's the reason why it's so important to steer your organization through the change journey. And that might be a good reason. I've been doing some very large scale projects where. It's worth not explaining the big elephant from the very start, but cutting it into pieces. And then it's much easier to absorb or coach, but at least you still give them the overview and sort of the big perspective of where are we going and the direction. And when you have good storytelling and you have the good strong messages, then people will follow your direction and then they will feel supported. That you are ensuring that they are getting whatever training and education or. You know, you are listening to their concerns and so forth in order to them feeling secure and having trust in you. The agile way brings those two parties closer to each other, so that you start understanding, you know, from small terminology and namings to whatever that is. So getting a common understanding of your situation and where you are and what the customer wants will actually make you succeed much better with your project.

Neil:

Have you worked on projects then where there are actual representatives of external customers? Maybe seeing your CRM software being part of the project team. How close can you bring your customer into this new way of working?

Britt:

I think it's worth asking, instead of assuming that's the first point. And I think that what happens in the development process is that you take experience from other similar companies like your own and that you have. Their customers to feedback on your things, because then it's not so close. I think we could be much better in involving our external customers as well. Yeah. That was a good value, I think. And I'm, I'm part of, and very active in, in various CRM communities to share that knowledge. And that also has been my intention with the book, make sure that I share my knowledge and help other business leaders and CRM enthusiasts, and IT too. To be better and more knowledgeable of what, what are they embarking on once they start on a project.

Neil:

Talking about people sharing their knowledge. I noticed a huge number of quotations that you have from business leaders and a few academics. are those all your clients? Are they research subjects? There's just, the book was littered with gems of great advice from people in the book.

Britt:

Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And that has been my special focus to contribute because I have experienced myself that most of the time, when you go to conferences or you go to these various go home meetings, and I think that things tend to be too on a high level. We never get down to the dove where we sort of know exactly what are the reasons or tell us why it's not working or tell us what really is good to succeed. And that was my purpose of involving so many. Different verticals, different types of roles. So it was not making a qualitative research outcome out of it, but more, and, and of course it's biased, but these people are very, they've been very engaged in the process. Coming along with different type of, of quotes and testimonials. And this is of course also over time where some of coming back and say, Oh yeah, I have this, you know, good statements or have experienced this. because I think that that is really the value in the book that you, you have all these people together with my own experience stating, okay, so this is a true value or this is a true effort or a true barrier or obstacle. And then how do we then solve it to to move on?

Neil:

So what would you say are the three biggest lessons that you were trying to convey with your experience in the book?

Britt:

my experience along the time has been that. Well, at least one learning has been very clear for me. is that the more preparation and focused you are at the initial start and preparation time that I'm talking about in my framework about three initial conditions that are the foundation and the interconnection between teams and readiness, so that the more prepared you are on those three conditions, the more rewards you will get at a later stage. That's no doubt about it. The other three conditions that I am looking at is engagement, measurements and anticipation. And the earlier you prioritize efforts within those parameters, the better you will actually capitalize on the employee's willingness for involvement, their participation, and their commitment to adapt to those new ways of working. And that goes both on the technical side, they are more willing to actually. Give inputs. Everyone likes to share the good experience and, and contribute to, to working better together. So you will also have them engaged in adapting to the changes that are coming out of that whole CRM solution or of whatever change that you are doing.

Neil:

What are the biggest mistakes you've seen people make? Especially from a change management perspective. Have you ever been part of a project that didn't go well and are those lessons captured in the book as well?

Britt:

Yeah, it is. and especially I think, and that is not a one time. I can say that I have seen too many times that you, you look into the project as once the implementation is done. It's fixed and finished. And then we just let people work as is okay. Actually they're quite left alone in a way to adapt to all these new things and often yeah, common perception that, okay. So now we have had the, the project team being involved. But the rest of the organization is really not that prepared. So, boom, you make a launch and you have some training and you, you assume that everything is going to be working from there on, whereas as I take the, the change journey to that last piece of recurring efforts that you actually need, because from my point of view, I think that once you have launched, that's where the real. Job and work is starting, and that is a long and severe work of following up with reinforcing, make sure that you are again involving your, your people both from the technical side, but also from the business side. To do the smaller improvements gain the quick wins, make sure that you are collaborating on finding out the best ways, because in theory, I see so often that you end up building a perfect business process with the seven or eight steps. And then once the sales guys, they start working on it, they sort of say, that's, IT's fault. You know, now they have been putting into many mandatory fields or whatever. So again, I think it is a matter of not understanding each other or having a conversation beforehand so that you don't get these conflicts.

Neil:

It's mirrors. My experience. I try and coach my customers that this new business application, isn't a project, it's a product and it's gonna last much longer than the initial project to implement it. But after that initial project is done, it's going to need maintenance and changes and training, and the business is going to change. And if you don't, the business is going to drift one way, the system is going to stay where it is. And in five or 10 years, you're going to have to rip it out and have another multi-million dollar project to replace it. And all of that time, you're missing out on the benefits you're causing frustration and heartache for your users. You need to invest a little bit every week, every month in closing those gaps, making the little enhancements, like you said, finding the quick wins and making sure that new people who start receive the same level of training and adoption that everybody else had whenever they started using the system as well.

Britt:

And that's where I also think that it's very important that everyone in the organization and all it's, that CRM is at journey, but it is a change journey because you will automatically progressively change the way of working once you. Improve a little bit, then you start thinking, how can you make it even better or what is not working? And I think there was a, a good willingness in everyone in the organization to, to do as best as they can. And they would like to perform because that also gives them a good light in, in the organization. and the more the, the people are thriving with change and, and. Trying to optimize that process. The more benefit you will give to the customers, because you will be doing faster internal deliveries, you will be looking into how can you seamless be working with the customer as one, but it, again, it takes this collective mindset. That's why I keep coming back to my red thread in this book, because it is about having that common understanding. We are all. Responsible and collaborating of generating that good customer experience.

Neil:

Do you think the change management approach varies depending upon whether it's a new CRM system you're implementing with sales and marketing, customer service people, or whether it's an ERP application and you're working with finance and HR and operations folks. Or whether it's some other type of business application. Have you seen any differences in the successful change management approach depending on the type of application?

Britt:

no, in fact, I would say that the book is very good for either or because in that case, it's not necessarily the, the product let's call it that whether it is a finance product or it is An HR product or solution that they are implementing or CRM for that aspect. I think that the change management is very much about involving people, whoever it takes and whatever stakeholders that are part of that area or that product in, in the organization. But I see that you tend to be too limited, you are looking to narrow into who should be involved. And it has been interesting to to interview some of these brain experts. Much change can you actually put into your brain in which frequency? Because some of the companies that I've been working with, they were driving a huge change project and it was just not CRM. It was everything. It was strategy with new CEO, there was also new directions and The whole portfolio was just packed with changes. And of course the, the people are just getting tired. You know, there was an expression in Danish where you say you develop Teflon skin. Do you understand that? So the Teflon, when you are cooking, make sure that you not get burned. So it's like. Getting off your

Neil:

nothing sticks to you.

Britt:

Yeah. So it doesn't stick. and if you have too much change one after another, then people get a kind of a fatigue and they, depending on the success of these change projects, they will just say, Oh, well, another one. And then they will turn back to their usual jobs and do business as usual. he was putting this picture of the driving of a car so that you need the wheels. If you only have two wheels, then of course it is harder to take the exit. Then if you have a car on four wheels and then the steering wheel itself is also necessary. And of course he was referring to. You know, make sure that you have a good direction, that you are telling people where to go and that you give them the appropriate skills and education and support in order to actually capture whatever change that you are implementing.

Neil:

thinking about the portfolio of changes, I've quite often looked at my CRM project and where it's landing within a portfolio of other IT projects. You know, we're just going after the bank system upgrade we're coming in before the new HR system. But. This client took a much broader perspective on their change portfolio. Look, we were going to be impacting these users. They're out in the branches where some of the branches are merging. We're giving staff new uniforms. We're rearranging the way that the branches are laid out. So there's just too much change. We're going to have to either defer or delay some of the other changes. So that there's just less overwhelm for some of the frontline staff that are serving our customers. And I'd never seen a client take that approach before maybe they looked at the IT portfolio, but this client looked at a much more holistic change portfolio of the impact on the users. Is that an approach you've seen elsewhere as well?

Britt:

I try to look into it firsthand because I think that it is important to try and do these assessments of how much impact in volume and effort do you actually create by fulfilling this change? I think it's important to know that transformation is about people. So we will not succeed unless that we have everyone participating in that change. Otherwise, you get too much resistance. You get too much doing your own thing or going under the radar where you are just doing as usual. It is very important, I think, to make sure that you have This aspect of seeing again, seeing your customer, then our, it is the internal customer. what are their concerns? What are their behaviors and how much are we changing? Because that, that is actually a job of, of the adoption. How, how will we succeed in adopting or making sure that our internal customers are adopting to the new changes? But again, most of the time, that was a highly focused on, on the first phases of the projects, mobilizing all the technical pieces and depending of course, on the resources and capacity I see too many projects being just delivered by a project manager. And he has so much to do already in making sure that he meets budget and time, and that he's delivering the expectations that sometimes it can be hard to also add on the communication piece and the change management activities and so forth.

Neil:

have you seen a lot of differences in approach working in different parts of the world? You've traveled and worked in different locations, are there any major cultural differences you've detected between different countries or different nationalities that have surprised you?

Britt:

Yeah, I think that we all have our first initial experiences with, with different cultures for the good and the bad of course. I think that when you work from a headquarter my first experience I remember with Asia was that we had totally delivered so to say perfect business process. we thought that we had involved the right people and And once we went live with, with this project, I was monitoring and I had also been putting some KPIs on the usage and making sure that we got the benefits out of that usage. And it occurred to me, I thought there were strange that the, the Asian salesforce was so sharp in meeting the targets of when they were closing deals so I had to go into the way that they were working within the process. And I found out that despite that there was agreeing and saying yes, and having, you know, this is. Not common or at least in a common knowledge, but that they were agreeing to everything. But in fact, they were just diverting and jeopardizing the whole process until the very last steps so that they could look good and succeed with their targets.

Neil:

Sometimes you've got to be very careful what you measure. It creates unintended behaviors.

Britt:

Yeah. And then I think that that's, I mean, now I've been working in different countries and, and having a global role where I have been involving worldwide, very, very many locations. And there are, there are some, I think good and, and an interesting cultural aspects in, in how to actually get people involved,

Neil:

I remember working in a UK organization it was actually headquartered in the US. And the sales manager, probably about six months after the new CRM system was deployed. The sales manager got fired for maintaining his forecast in a spreadsheet instead of asking his team to maintain it in the CRM system and then exporting the report. The managing director of the UK said you've got to go. I asked you three times to stop doing that. You're fired. I think that was a pretty bold move. Beating somebody up with a stick to enforce a certain behavior. You just wouldn't see that in most European countries. Probably not in Australia either, but yeah, it was a very surprising outcome for that sales manager. I've never seen that kind of behavior before.

Britt:

You get what you measure and you get what you are pointing out. I also remember another project where the the sales. Director. He wanted to have a lot of mandatory fields into the system. And what happens next was that instead of actually sharing insights and adding the proper information on the customers, they were basically just putting dots into it, to move on to whatever stage or whatever they needed to, to progress with their customers.

Neil:

That's that's how I got started in CRM. Hey, there's 13 required fields. It was a, an HR system. So it was candidate record. So there's 13 required fields. So I just entered a full stop until I could save the record. I was like, Oh, let me, let me go into the it department and see if I can fix this. And that was my career as a business analyst, just getting started.

Britt:

Yeah. Another good example, I think, which is actually a good process, I think was that We were looking into how we could structure the sales force again, much better and do better follow ups, making sure that they worked in a structured way. And then we took this little project in terms of, of trying to automate some pieces of, of information on the reporting level. But also following up with where tasks and the next steps and so forth. But the interesting piece was there also that when we looked into aggregate the, the, the, the data, the customer data and the figures, all of a sudden, we got everyone to realize that the customer base was not a total mess, but it, it was a very poor quality. and I was keep saying yet that, you know, when you actually put your customer data on the balcony, you start seeing what it is like and what data quality you have, because otherwise everyone is working on slicing and dicing Excel sheets, and they are making them clean and they deliver a perfect set of reporting. And behind the scene, you have an analysis that you have actually been asking someone two days work or whoever is drilling down at the organization to, to contribute to that the Excel sheet.

Neil:

So it sounds like there's some great stories and examples in the book. How can listeners to the Amazing Applications podcast get hold of the book Where's it available?

Britt:

right now it's being distributed out of Copenhagen. So if they access my my website and I have one page set up where they can read the previews of the book, they can see some of the testimonials and read much more about it then I would like to offer a free shipping So I can provide you with the the code and and you can get some, a discount on that, on the shipping.

Neil:

Oh, great stuff. We'll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes. And tell us about what you're working on next. Have you got another book in mind or you're doing some consulting work and how can people find out more about your work today?

Britt:

Right after I released the book, I got contacted by a friends out of Germany. And he has a project that was Needing more focus, needing more stability to, to steer it in order to succeed within the timeframe that the, that their needs. So I actually started a new way of working in this pandemic world with COVID-19. So I'm actually working remotely. In Germany, but sitting in Copenhagen and helping them steering as a program manager for the CRM program. And then also supporting them with the change management. So it's a very exciting project also globally. I think that what I have experienced already, and I think it is a very, you know, many people are talking about, Oh yeah, this pandemic is negative or that, you know, those different. Impacts of course, but I also find that there was a lot of new opportunities in the way that we are working. I see a great strength in being able to involve more people across their regions and locations that we can actually have a very valid team meetings, making sure that we. Again, confirm and ask the right questions and make sure that we are steering in the right direction. It's very, very, very exciting. There's no need for flying anymore, you know, you can, and I think the way that you can do video is also, of course it's not the same, but I think that you are very close to still get good relations with new people that you work with in that matter.

Neil:

Yeah, I think it wasn't a drawback I had considered, but certainly the distance from head office was a barrier to adoption and to participation and inclusion for a lot of teams that were in another country or in another region thousands of kilometers away from where the decisions were being made and how they can participate much more easily. Maybe we have find a new way of working. It's much more inclusive.

Britt:

Yeah, because I think that this hybrid way of working is something that we really should take advantage of that it is a good way of engaging a larger number in our organization to succeed with projects in larger organizations.

Neil:

Britt, I really appreciate you coming on to the show and spending some time with us. Any final thoughts?

Britt:

I just would say you can't afford to not read the book. I think it is a game changer in the way that we should be thinking differently of how to succeed with our projects and, and product that we are implementing to our internal customers. and that we should see a much greater help in how we go to market with our own products to customers.

Neil:

Well, congratulations. Once again on publishing it, I got a lot of insights just in the preview. Can't wait to get my hands on the rest of the book. So I encourage all my, all the listeners to do the same.

Britt:

Yeah. And remember it is a joint effort. So it is our customer.

Neil:

Thanks Britt. Appreciate having you on the show.

Britt:

Thank you so much for your time. Bye bye.

Thanks Britt. I like how you're expanding our minds to thinking not just about our users, but also our end customers and the impact that our business applications are going to have on the customer experience, too. If you're listening to this episode on the day it comes out, you might just have time to register for a webinar Britt is hosting called "Achieve successful CRM, with a collective customer mindset". It's at 1400 central European on Wednesday, the 28th of April. A registration link is in the show notes. You'll find the show notes at customery.com/031. You'll also find a link to the information page for Britt's book, "It's Our Customer", links to Britt's profile and a transcript of our conversation is there too. Remember to follow Amazing Applications on your favorite podcast player, as we drop more amazing episodes into your ears as often as we can. Thanks for listening until next time, keep sprinting.