Amazing CRM & ERP Apps in Manufacturing with Shawn Tabor

Neil Benson [00:00:00]: Hi, and welcome back to Amazing Apps. I'm Neil Benson, Microsoft MVP, and your agile business apps coach. 

Have you joined me on Amazing Apps before? If so, welcome back. Thanks for coming back. I appreciate you. And if this is your first time, a very special welcome to you. On Amazing Apps, I help Dynamics 365 and Power platform builders create amazing Agile Business Apps through my own experiences or through sharing the stories and experiences of amazing guests. 

In today's episode, we've got Shawn Tabor. He'll be sharing insights into the world of customer experience in the manufacturing and service industries. We'll dive into the importance of integrating CRM and ERP apps and the challenges faced by manufacturers with multiple ERPs and how digital tools are revolutionizing customer service. Shawn is a Director of Consulting Services at Hitachi Solutions America. He specializes in the manufacturing sector. He was a founding co-host of the CRM Audio podcast, which is how I got started in podcasting. Thanks, Shawn. And he's been a Microsoft MVP for ages, too. 

Shawn also touches on the need for simplicity and efficiency in managing inventory. And stay tuned as we explore real-life examples. We're going to discuss the demand for a light version of Dynamics 365 field service. And we learn about Shawn's personal experiences in the world of manufacturing, customer support, and collectibles, which is a big part of his life as well. It's going to be an insightful episode, so let's dive right in. Here's Shawn Tabor.

All right. Shawn Tabor, welcome to Amazing Applications. It's great to have you on the show. Thanks so much for joining me, mate. It's been a long time. Have you been?

Shawn Tabor [00:01:44]: Yeah, it's been a long time, but thanks for having me. I was excited when I got the invite. It's been too long.

Neil Benson [00:01:49]: Well, since we last caught up, it was a couple of years ago, you've shifted your focus a little bit. You were guru in field service. You were the host of CRM Audio, and then At Your Service podcast. These days, you've got a special focus on manufacturing. I don't know if manufacturers really need a CRM system. Don't most of them sell through distributors? Why do they even need a CRM application in the first place?

Shawn Tabor [00:02:09]: It's surprising, but that is really changing. A lot of manufacturers not only have a partner channel, right, like you're familiar with, but they're also doing a lot of their own servicing of equipment to where they need this kind of interactivity with their customers. With digitizing that sales channel through a portal, for example, PowerApps portal, that CRM system becomes all that more important. Remote workers, the proliferation of that with manufacturers, from a sales perspective in a non-factory floor kind of situation, it's becoming more and more important. And business is very good.

Neil Benson [00:02:49]: Do you think they're any good at it? Most people have got some horror stories about a dreadful experience of manufacturer. Let me show you this is one of many toners I've bought for my brother, a printer recently. It's a laser printer. It's a couple of years old. And suddenly I got all these error messages, and if I contact the manufacturer, they're like, oh, yeah, just buy some genuine Brother toner cartridges, please. They're only $150 each. You need four of them. That's $600 of toner for a $450 printer. What it turns out I'm waiting for—I bought one that didn't fix it. I bought some more third-party ones that didn't seem to fix it. I took it to a service center. They said, oh, we replaced all the toner cartridges with genuine Brother ones, and it works. What I suspect is there's a battery inside the chip. Why there's a chip? And I don't know why the battery has a chip, but the battery runs out. The toner hasn't run out, but I think the battery has died. But in all of this, I'm just getting the runaround from the manufacturer. I'm not sure if manufacturers are geared up to provide support to end customers like me. And there's lots of different manufacturers. Maybe they're selling business to business and heavy machinery, and maybe they can do it. But have you seen some world-class examples of manufacturers providing end-user support, customer support?

Shawn Tabor [00:04:03]: I have, actually. I think part of the key and this is not to pat a partner like ourselves at Hitachi on our own back, but part of our job is to help them understand what that transition is from B2B to B2C. Right. So we have to help them understand when you're dealing with that customer experience, that it truly is a customer experience that's key. So your experience is not something that is foreign. I've heard that a bunch of times, and typically that's why we come in to help them, right.

Neil Benson [00:04:38]: Right.

Shawn Tabor [00:04:39]: The manufacturers I primarily deal with are building large equipment manufacturer. They're large equipment manufacturers, right. So we had a customer who manufactured uninterruptible power supplies, big ones like for Microsoft, Intel, things like that, but they were servicing those units. So stories as we are moving through that discovery phase network, you're finding that customer experience comes into things like they place an order through a normal sales channel where you're talking to a salesperson. Salesperson is putting it into their sales app. It's going through their ERP. Right? But then things like they forget that it's a 12,000-pound unit and they can't drop ship it to an apartment complex, things like that. Right. So you got to work through that and help them through that. We deal with smaller manufacturers for medical supplies and equipment. It's those similar kind of things it really comes down to manufacturers are trying to find efficiencies in how they support their customers, how they support their products so that they can make a better margin but provide the same level of support. And by doing that internally through a partner channel through an internal support team that is maybe brand new to their organization, comes with challenges, some of which CRM solves, some of which an ERP implementation, a sound ERP implementation solves. Because a lot of times we also see you come into a manufacturer, they have eleven different ERPs, one for each little business area, right? And they're smaller ERPs, so you got to implement something larger like finance and operations. So it's a challenge, but you have to look at what level of service they're trying to provide from a digital perspective. So via a portal, or from the salesperson's perspective, their digital experience and apply CRM appropriately.

Neil Benson [00:06:47]: You mentioned lots of different Microsoft apps there. And I'm thinking if I was to walk into a reasonable-size manufacturing operation today and they wanted a clean sweep, we'd be looking at Dynamic 365 sales, probably some customer service, field service. If I had to go out and service equipment, I'd be looking at supply chain asset management. You mentioned Power Pages as well. That's a big stack.

Shawn Tabor [00:07:12]: Marketing.

Neil Benson [00:07:13]: There are only a few partners, at least here in Australia that I can think of who can deploy all of that. We don't have Hitachi Solutions very much here in Australia, but that's a complicated stack to deploy. What kind of organization do you need to be to go for that stack? Do people go incrementally through it or do they need to really think about it as a big transformational program? And how does that stack up against other vendors who may have more of an all-in-one solution in the market?

Shawn Tabor [00:07:36]: Yeah, so sometimes it is difficult to puzzle piece it together over time. And a lot of times when you come into a manufacturer, they're wanting to just get it all done, big bang, let's go. And you have to talk them down from that. You have to say, okay, let's look at the broader range on what we're trying to do and where are the major pain points, and let's come up with a roadmap and a plan. So I have one customer, we started with customer service and sales. We have since implemented field service, marketing, finance and operations with dual rights. We're moving into Omnichannel, but that's a customer we've had for almost ten years.

Neil Benson [00:08:19]: Oh, wow. Okay.

Shawn Tabor [00:08:22]: Yeah. It's a long-term program, so it takes a lot of investment. It takes a lot of not only and I'm not talking just dollars, it takes a lot of investment from a partnership perspective to get that level of understanding, that level of trust that you're going to move them through. And you're right when you're dealing with all these different apps, and you know just as well as I do, they don't always just plug and play super nice and perfect. Right? It just doesn't happen. Yes, I know, I know. This is hot takes. So you have to understand what they're trying to achieve from a business perspective and model that within the ecosystem of Microsoft. And quite often you have to leverage things like Fast Track. You have to leverage relationships with the product team. You have to leverage that sales organization within Microsoft to help support that. I mean also all of those apps become very expensive too. It's not just the services component. There's also a huge licensing piece now. Back in the day when we first started all this business, you'd buy one license and you got everything you needed and now I don't even want to talk about licensing. Give me a headache, give me a headache. But really, truly it's something that you can't go in guns ablaze and say, okay everything, I'm going to sell you every single thing, right? You have to be able to, especially with a manufacturer that's going through a huge transformation digitally. You have to pick your battles and you have to have a plan because if you don't that implementation will fail. And it doesn't matter what you do. They'll either go to something else, maybe they'll bring in new senior leadership and everything's you know.

Neil Benson [00:10:19]: Do you find your teams are building temporary solutions like integrating with their existing ERP system? Let's say you're doing a new field service app and you got to go inventory and invoices are still in the it's called the Legacy ERP. So we're going to integrate with that for a while. But our plan is two or three years down the line we're going to rip out that Legacy ERP and upgrade to finance and operations. Do you find there are staging points along the way in a program that's ten years long?

Shawn Tabor [00:10:47]: Definitely. There's manufacturing customers that you can either start on the CE side or on the finance and operations side. And either way, you're looking at it from a partner perspective on how can know. This is kind of a crude way to say it, but how can I chip away at the non-Microsoft investment and get more Microsoft investment in there? So we quite often integrate with, you know, other ERP systems while we're building the CE infrastructure that then we can easily, you know, now you need asset management if you had, you know, to go down that path, right? Or on the other side, you get a customer or you get a big finance and operations deal and then you start slowly introducing the sales process to get them off. And sometimes that's now done with Power Platform where you're integrating from F&O to salesforce and you're slowly weaning them off, you know. So it's just ways you have to manage that it's on either side. But my job is to make sure that we're looking ahead to where we can take advantage of those opportunities.

Neil Benson [00:11:53]: You mentioned you can start at either the CE side or the ERP side. You and I are old school CRM guys, but is there a preferred approach or is it really depend upon the customer's situation and environment and what they're trying to achieve? Is there a way you'd recommend?

Shawn Tabor [00:12:07]: Ideally, I think, if all things are equal, I think if you have the ERP sound and set with your customers, with your general ledger, all of that, that is typically a better foundation to move. Because then you know who your customers are, how you're populating the product catalog and CE, how you're managing assets, how you're dealing with inventory, all of that.

Neil Benson [00:12:31]: Okay, so for anybody listening who's thinking about making a clean sweep in their manufacturing business, start with ERP and then roll out the customer engagement apps later on.

Shawn Tabor [00:12:41]: It's a longer process. It depends on what you want your quick wins to be. Right? We do it all the time. The other way around, there's just challenges involved either way.

Neil Benson [00:12:53]: I had Mola Sorensen on the podcast probably seven or eight months ago talking about Field Service. And one of the things he wished for from Microsoft, if they listened to MVP's wishes, he was made an MVP shortly afterwards. So they don't listen to your wishes if you're not an MVP. But he's had a lot of feedback from the market for a light version of Field Service in particular. And I know I had a little customer here, little customer. They were a local services business. They do plumbing, electrical, kind of domestic jobs. They have about 100 trucks go around Brisbane. They were looking at Dynamics 365 Field Service and Business Central, and talk about the shock of those applications not really integrating very easily, natively. But the Field Service application, they were only going to use a fraction of it. And there isn't really an alternative version of Field Service like there is for customer service. We have professional and Enterprise for Field Service. It's just Field Service. Do you see a lot of demand in the market for a light version of a Dynamics 365 Field Service?

Shawn Tabor [00:13:57]: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. A lot of our services customers don't need the full depth, breadth and width of the Field Service application. Plus, if you look at a lot of the competitors, one thing I do which bothers, it just bothers my wife to no end. Whenever we have someone come to the house to fix anything or maintain anything, I'm like, hey, what's that app you're using? Can I take a look? And they're like, would you just let them work and get them out of the house? Leave. And the apps that most services industry’s customers use are fairly lightweight. They're fairly easy to use. They're integrated to some kind of payment system, right?

Neil Benson [00:14:42]: Yeah.

Shawn Tabor [00:14:42]: A lot of the things we don't have.

Neil Benson [00:14:44]: So the customer could pay on a credit card or with their phone in the house.

Shawn Tabor [00:14:50]: Right. Or they could easily take a picture of a cheque. We can do some of that, but it's not integrated to a payment system. And integrating to a payment system is not fun with Field Service. I mean, it can be done, but it's not an enjoyable experience getting it in. So, yeah, a light version would be fantastic especially when you have those scenarios where it's very small, it's very quick, and you just want to take payment and move on. Right. It's not a situation where you're maintaining assets. You may just be a company that's doing services. It's not your equipment. So this is not a manufacturer servicing their own equipment. It's just an HVAC company that's going out and servicing a compressor. And I don't care what I'm putting in. I don't care what's just I'm doing the service, I'm doing a checkup. I need to know what things I need to bring in my truck stock, something simple. Right?

Neil Benson [00:15:53]: Yeah.

Shawn Tabor [00:15:54]: So, yeah, I've given that feedback as well to the product team.

Neil Benson [00:15:58]: So I think since I had that conversation with Magnus, our friend Steve Mordue over at Forceworks has shipped a, I can't remember what it's called, RapidStart Field Service, probably. And yeah, I'd be interested to take a look at that next time I have a Field Service requirement and see what's in there.

Shawn Tabor [00:16:12]: Steve's got a good head on his shoulders. He's done a lot with the Power Platform since it began with his Forceworks products. I mean, the challenge I have with Field Service is if they need something simple, sometimes I have to spend more time to undo the things I don't need than I am doing to make it different.

Neil Benson [00:16:37]: Yes. Hiding buttons and removing menu options and adjusting all the security roles to hide tables, delete buttons, I get it.

Shawn Tabor [00:16:47]: Figuring out how to work around plugins that are firing that I don't really need to fire.

Neil Benson [00:16:53]: What's it like at Hitachi? You obviously got a great services business. Do you do a lot of product development? Have you got a Field Service light in the works at Hitachi? Or is it a consulting first business without kind of a plan to develop much of your own product?

Shawn Tabor [00:17:10]: We lead with our services, but we do have a great innovation team that's working on a number of initiatives. Some in the field service space, some in the customer service space. But we have our Engage apps for healthcare. We do have a Field Service accelerator. It's for warranty.

Neil Benson [00:17:33]: Okay, yes.

Shawn Tabor [00:17:35]: So we do have some products and they are on Microsoft thing.

Neil Benson [00:17:38]: AppSource.

Shawn Tabor [00:17:40]: There you go. God bless America. Yes. And they are available on AppSource. But we're always looking at new areas to invest. And from a services perspective, we work really hard to try to curate from within projects. Right. So if we're working on the same thing over and over and over again, we try to capture that, whether it's architectural reference guidance or maybe mini accelerators, and then we bubble that up to our innovations team. So it's a good process. We have a really good team with the innovations group.

Neil Benson [00:18:18]: That's a really good discipline for any Microsoft partner to get into spotting those patterns. But then you have to actually invest some time to get people, typically it's non billable work, right. To harvest those resources, to make them generic enough that they're going to be applicable to lots of other customers, to store them somewhere internally that other teams can easily discover and find them and make them available, keep them up to date. And then you've got to think, if you've got to package all out to actually be an ISV, then you need a professional development team. It's not a chargeable, billable customer team. So not many Microsoft partners have perfected that model of being both an ISV and a systems integrator at the same time.

Shawn Tabor [00:18:57]: And you got to choose when you want to sell the product as opposed to accelerate delivery. One is not the same as the other. Right?

Neil Benson [00:19:09]: Yeah, good point.

Shawn Tabor [00:19:10]: So we have to look at those decisions wisely.

Neil Benson [00:19:13]: So you've got quite a bit of both little features to accelerate an implementation, which would be a selling point. I guess if I'm weighing up Hitachi versus somebody else, they've got all these accelerators, they can do it quicker. They've done this before.

Shawn Tabor [00:19:24]: Right, well, and what it does is it helps when we're estimating on a project. If we have these accelerators, we can take those into account when we're estimating, and that helps us be a little bit more competitive in the market.

Neil Benson [00:19:38]: Awesome, right? Talking about being competitive in the market, congratulations on your recent Partner of the Year Award.

Shawn Tabor [00:19:44]: Thank you. Very excited about that.

Neil Benson [00:19:46]: You probably have a better idea of exactly how many Partner of the Year Awards Hitachi has won, but this is not your first.

Shawn Tabor [00:19:52]: I think this is our fourth.

Neil Benson [00:19:54]: Well done. Well done. So tell us about, I don't know whether it was for a single project that you wrote up at the Microsoft, judges really loved that project or whether it was a portfolio that you submitted. Can you tell us a bit about what led to the award this year?

Shawn Tabor [00:20:08]: Yeah, it truly was a portfolio. Our marketing team and our services and manufacturing teams worked very hard to maintain very good documentation on the things we did this year. This last year. It was a big year. Really, truly was. We had some significant implementations across not only manufacturing, but services and healthcare with field service, omnichannel, customer service. So it really played well into that new combined services unit. Additionally, along with the services, we were also Partner of the Year for a supply chain, which internally those two teams were really working more like a BizAps team than individual silos, which is really fantastic. So we're continuing to grow in both manufacturing and in its services to bridge that gap. So a CE architect, for example, can—they're not necessarily configuring or working in F&O, but they know enough to be able to articulate not only to the customer, but to their F&O counterpart. What it is we're talking about, we're really getting seeing some really good progress on bridging that gap so that we can be seamless there. It's exciting.

Neil Benson [00:21:28]: That's tough because it's like oil and water trying to emulsify applications consultants.

Shawn Tabor [00:21:34]: It is.

Neil Benson [00:21:35]: Good job.

Shawn Tabor [00:21:35]: Yeah, it is. It's tough, but we've been doing it slow and steady ever since probably three or four years ago when we really started accelerating our field service business. More and more we were integrating more and more to supply chain. So more and more we were bringing those folks together. Our Dev Tech team really provides that technical oversight to where we can really articulate strongly those key solutions when you're dealing with integration between F&O and with Field Service, it's not as simple as unfortunately as Microsoft makes it seem. It's good, but it could be better. And so we're really working to standardize how we approach that when we're dealing with dual-write, when we have to go another way, what patterns are we using when we're integrating field service to Project Ops, for example, or to supply chain? Because now with things like Project Ops where it's more of a dataverse duality kind of thing, it's requiring us even more and more to integrate those teams together. So it's exciting, but it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

Neil Benson [00:22:49]: Yeah. Like I said, there's not many partners with the kind of scale and breadth of expertise needed. I think the businesses I run and we're very specialized, we're focused on one industry really, just a couple of applications. You've got a big portfolio of Microsoft applications to be able to implement, which is a much bigger team, bigger breadth of expertise. Good on you.

Shawn Tabor [00:23:11]: Well, we have folks on our team like Joe Unwin. He's our Capability Lead for Power Platform. He focuses solely on Power Platform to help us understand what's the best way to implement, what are the innovations coming, how do we take advantage of those. And he's looking forward. We have folks like that on the Field Service. That's my old job, the customer service, marketing and sales. Adam Piercy from our team is doing amazing things with sales. It's great when you have those kind of people on your team. Bill Caldwell running that team has really moved the needle in terms of how we can manage looking forward while in delivery. My team is focusing on getting the projects done in the now, but we're continually building the collateral for how we're going to do it in the future.

Neil Benson [00:24:03]: One of my favorite topics, Shawn, is no surprise is to talk a little bit about implementation approaches or methodologies. And I know Hitachi works very closely with the Microsoft Fast Track team who've got some guidance around the success by design approach and I'm sure you follow parts of that. But I'd love to know more. Has Hitachi got its own methodology or approach that it uses or do you alter your approach depending upon the customer and their environment and what kind of culture they have. How does that work at Hitachi solutions?

Shawn Tabor [00:24:32]: So we do have our own methodology. It incorporates Fast Track within it. So part of one of our phases is the blueprint phase, and that deals a lot with Fast Track, right? So we deal with Fast Track ongoing throughout the entire engagement. But in order for us to be competitive, we have to be able to pivot. And if a customer has their own framework, has their own methodology, maybe they're not agile, maybe they don't like Scrum. Okay, then we got to do something else, right? So we have been able to work with multiple customers with outside frameworks and difference. Our framework is very solid. It works very well, but doesn't work for every customer. So we have to be okay with that, you know.

Neil Benson [00:25:22]: Cool. Is there anything else you wanted to cover, Shawn? I'd love to just catch up a little bit more about your background. So for those who want to stay on and join Shawn and I in a quick retrospective, I wanted to ask you life after podcasting. You were the co-host of CRM Audio, which I checked out. I found it on Pod Chaser. Still the more episodes of Scrum Audio than any other show, 550 something episodes. And then you had a specialist podcast called At Your Service wrapped up a little while ago, and again another 35, 40 episodes over there. Have you taken a break from podcast hosting? Are you going to come back someday onto the microphone?

Shawn Tabor [00:26:03]: I have an idea for a new one, but I haven't kicked anything off yet. My daughter is now a Scrum Master. 

Neil Benson [00:26:13]: She used to be a teacher, right?

Shawn Tabor [00:26:14]: Yeah, third grade.

Neil Benson [00:26:16]: Yeah.

Shawn Tabor [00:26:17]: So she's now a very good Scrum Master. And her fiance so this is an exclusive, her fiance works in supply chain. So I've considered trying to put together like a Family Dynamics podcast. Right. I think it'd be fun. I think I'd drive them nuts. I think I'd say things that they have no idea what I'm talking about. And my future son in law wants to learn Field Service .

Neil Benson [00:26:50]: Very cool.

Shawn Tabor [00:26:50]: Yeah, I'm kicking it around, thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. But yeah, when that ended, it was weird because I was so used to doing it and I did it. It was one of those things. I didn't do it because I was trying to get MVP contributions. That wasn't it at all. I was doing it because it was fun. I enjoyed it. I loved talking to people. I loved, you know, just collaborating. Even with George.

Neil Benson [00:27:20]: I'm going to see George next week. I'm down in Sydney, so I can't wait to catch up with him.

Shawn Tabor [00:27:25]: I legit miss talking to George. So yeah, it was good time. I really, truly do miss it.

Neil Benson [00:27:31]: Well, you guys give me my break in podcasting. I got to do the Scrum Dynamics podcast as part of the CM Audio network for a while back there in 2017 or 18, I started.

Shawn Tabor [00:27:40]: Yeah.

Neil Benson [00:27:41]: So, yeah, thanks for giving me a shot at it, carrying the torch.

Shawn Tabor [00:27:45]: I appreciate that. It was something that I will always cherish that we did, and it was one of my greatest accomplishments, truly.

Neil Benson [00:27:54]: Well, the other great accomplishment you have is as a collector. I can't remember all the different things you collect, but you seem to have quite a few collection. 

Shawn Tabor [00:28:02]: You see some of them. 

Neil Benson [00:28:04]: Hobbies. What's the latest?

Shawn Tabor [00:28:07]: Okay, so I stopped collecting funko pops.

Neil Benson [00:28:11]: Oh, yeah, those are little bubble head things. Yeah.

Shawn Tabor [00:28:13]: Yes. It's these little bubble heads. So I only collect Star Wars, but I stopped doing those. Now I'm into retro gaming. So over here to the left in my office I have a Nintendo, a Super Nintendo, a Wii, a Switch, an Xbox, an Xbox 360, an Xbox Series X and an Xbox one, a PS5, a PS three3 and a PS2.

Neil Benson [00:28:40]: Oh, gosh.

Shawn Tabor [00:28:42]: Yeah. And then I have just sprawled out. I have little Game Boy advanced cartridges all over the place. I'm now into retro gaming.

Neil Benson [00:28:53]: So have you sold down any of the other collections? Have you bought a warehouse? Where do you keep all this stuff?

Shawn Tabor [00:28:59]: Well, in my closet in front of me is a lot of pops. And I actually did sell about 35 pops to buy the Super Nintendo and the Nintendo. So I'm slowly selling off some of the pops to buy more games. But it's fun.

Neil Benson [00:29:16]: Well, I'm not going to get to see you. I think you're giving up the opportunity to meet with me at Power Platform Conference in Vegas in a couple of months time. Where can people catch up with you next? Any conference plans?

Shawn Tabor [00:29:29]: I'm going to try to make it to Community Summit. That's my intent. Whether or not I'm speaking, I'm not sure. I haven't decided. But, yeah, I hope to be there. So if you see me, please say hey. I'd love to talk to anybody. Yeah.

Neil Benson [00:29:42]: Where's community summit being hosted this year? I can't think off the top of.

Shawn Tabor [00:29:46]: My head, I can't either. It's not Orlando. That was last year. Wherever it is, I'm planning on, okay.

Neil Benson [00:29:52]: We'll add that into the show notes, make sure there's a link to the Dynamics Community Summit this year. So if you want to catch up with Shawn Tabor. Shawn, thanks so much for joining me on amazing applications. It's been my pleasure to have you. It was way too long, so really, thanks for coming on and joining me.

Shawn Tabor [00:30:06]: Thanks for having me, really. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you.

Neil Benson [00:30:09]: Thanks, Shawn, for joining me on Amazing Apps. It was cool to catch up again with you. Congratulations again on your daughter's role as a Scrum Master. Sorry I won't get to catch up with you at Community Summit North America, but for anybody who wants to catch up with Shawn, it's the 15th. To 20 October in Charlotte, North Carolina. Instead, I'm going to be at Microsoft Power Platform Summit from the 30 September to the 04 October in Las Vegas. Actually, let you into a little secret. Chris Huntingford and I are plotting very special social fundraising event. Oh, I wish I could tell you all about it. I'll let you know as soon as I can once it's been confirmed with the folks at the conference. The best way to find out about it is to join my mailing list. And you can do that by visiting customery.com/certification. Fill in the form there and you'll be the first to receive my new guide considering scrum certification. It's for Dynamics 365 and Power Platform app builders who are on the fence or just not sure if Scrum training and certification is right for them. I'll send you the guide. And I'll also send you a notice as soon as Chris and I can share our super awesome event in Vegas. It's going to be epic, as Chris would say. Oh, by the way, Shawn, your daughter, I'm sure she's amazing, but it doesn't look like she has achieved her Scrum certification yet. Customery.com slash certification. Pass it on to Shawn. Thanks for joining me. Until next time, keep experimenting.